JDM Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 thort i should start my own thread rather that hijack the other one. here is my thorts of how i should set up my sump if it remains under my tank. i hope you can understand it, my ability to draw is similar to my abiltiy to spell, useless! for some reason it has come out very small, if you copy and paste it in paint you will be able to zoom in and see the dimentions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 it seems photobucket has shrunken the pic beyond repair. use this: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/down ... rtoys.mspx to resize the image if it was too large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 that link wont work for me kp, hmmmm i wonder why its been shunk, is not exactly a huge file. i will try to sort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 http://download.microsoft.com/download/ ... ySetup.exe here is the program Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 cool, cheers dude. cool program by the way. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 my ability to draw is similar to my abiltiy to spell, useless glad you're the first to admit it! i "thort" you "sould" go to spelling classes at some stage so from memory, you have an in-sump deltec 1250, a laguna 7 for the return. what about plumbing to the sump already? what size tank? what size is this sump? need more info! lets number the sections 1 through 3, from left to right (excluding the baffle region) the 1st section is for flow from the display tank and the 2nd section is for the skimmer right? i take it that you have done it this way to isolate the skimmer from the water entering the sump - good move however that baffle (that divides sections 1 and 2) needs to be ever so slightly higher than the one that divides 2 from the baffle region. is your drawing to scale? I can't read the dimensions. if it is to scale, the final section (on the right) needs to be larger. you will still get bubbles coming off the baffles (not many, but still enough to probably effect the performance of the laguna) otherwise, its a pretty simple design. does not need to be anymore complex than what you have shown. just a tip with the heater, put it in the 'baffle' region. benefits are that its out the way, less chance of getting knocked and broken and it comes in contact with a good deal more water passing around it. i run 3 heaters on a controller, one sits in the baffle region, one in the area where your skimmer goes and one (the cheapest $$$) in the return pump section - if the sump ran dry i lose a cheap heater, bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 oh, and make sure that the baffle height matches the optimal water level required by the skimmer otherwise you'll have to do what i did and make a stand for the skimmer to sit on also, the water line will sit around about 5mm higher than the baffle (depends on flow rate, could be higher) lastly, the "empty" space above the top of the baffles to the top of the tank - possibly needs more room to compensate for backflow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 hmmm spelling, bugger it! no money in that! ok so i still can get that drawing to work. yes i have the deltec 1250, laguna 7, display is 1220l x 455 back x 600 deep, current plumbing is pvc and should be good to stay with the new sump (untill i get annoyed with a little sump and go through the wall) sump is 530mm long x 400mm back x 359mm tall, so small! the right hand side of the drawing was the "in" from my overflow, the laguna will sit on the left, do i have it back to front? baffles after skimmer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 the right hand side of the drawing was the "in" from my overflow, the laguna will sit on the left, do i have it back to front? baffles after skimmer? baffles after the skimmer would be preferred. in-sump skimmers still create quite a few bubbles (at least the deltec 1060 that i had certainly did!) the purpose of the baffles is to remove all bubbles prior to the return pump (or in fact, any pump) so the perfect design would be 2 sets of baffles with the skimmer in the middle - but thats really going a little overboard get the skilly out, cut a hole in your wall! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted September 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 my goal is to somewhat copy what you have done chimera, and go in wall, 7ftx3ftx2ft so im trying to hang in there with this setup till i get brave enough to cut some serious holes in my wall. i suppose a few extra holes to gib up wont be too much of a problem. ok if i go through the wall, i would like to have the sump raised a little from the floor to allow easy water changes, i dont have any limit to space (within reason) in the room behind my tank as it is a spare room. might need to change the title of this thread to jdm's tank upgrade. did you reinforce (dam (EDIT DAMN) spelling!) the floor under you tank chimera? i will defenaly need to look into that, it is the only job im not sure how to tackle and then the in wall could get started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 thort i should start my own thread rather that hijack the other one. ROTFL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetskisteve Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 buy a hole saw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 i have just gone and found my hole saws so i will now be setting up a sump in my spare room :bounce: i have a 4 foot display and im thinking of setting up a 4 foot sump, the main reason for 4 foot as my sump is, i am sick of not having the room in my current tiny sump and figure bigger is better, however i am not certin bigger is better so any advice will be a great help. dose anyone have a picture of there sump design that works well for them? im keen to get a few differant designs and take the best bits and make my own. to get the picture i have the current things in my sump: L7 (return) deltec ts1250 2x heaters 2x sml power head (1 for zeo 1 for ca reactor) zeo reactor (soon to be pump for chiller) i would like a refuge in the sump design, might go dsb might go for frags grow out might not use it at all, just like the options it gives me. i have no limit of space (well under 10ft long) so if bigger again then cool or if smaller then cool. advice please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 28, 2006 Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 did you reinforce (dam (EDIT DAMN) spelling!) the floor under you tank chimera? no, however my tank sits pretty much directly over a bearer. the posts the bearer sit on are not too far away from being directly under the tank either (a metre away or so) so all up, pretty strong as it is. i will be adding another bearer to sit under the joists and a couple of posts when i upgrade to 6x3x2 (or 7x3x2 if room permits ) just for safety's sake. you can get load bearing info from a builders manual on the different types of bearers/joists you are using so could work out approximately what you need anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 i have my new sump! it is 4ft and 10ml glass, it has 2 holes one on each end. i will be constructing the stand for it to sit on this week, is there any reason why i shouldnt have the sump sitting on a stand that is say 1.5ft tall? it will be directly behind the display (through the wall) my display stand is approx 3ft tall. i am thinking of using the height of the sump to make water changes easy by giving me a gravity to drain the sump. i will also make a stand for the nsw drum to sit on to replace the water removed during a change. also, what is the best distance between the baffels? i will be adding my own baffels to the sump to remove micro bubbles as i will go back to the dorso once the new sump is up and running. i will have a set of baffels after my skimmer before the return pump to remove any micro bubbles that might come from my skimmer (i havnt noticed any micro bubbles from my skimmer but i have plenty of room so i figure why not have the baffels). would 5ply marine be suitable for the sump to sit on? with poly between the glass and timber of corse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilknieval69 Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Dont forget pics!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 i will put some pics up once construction has got started. 8) just answered all my questions in my last post from melevsreef.com excellent site if you are thinking of setting up a new sump. the link is in the sticky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 HELP!!!!! i have just plumbed my new sump, but i have an issue, my overflow is not draining fast enough. details: i have put a large sump in my spare room directly behind the tank, i have put the sump on a custom diy stand, i have redone all the plumbing to the sump, in doing so i have reduced the head height and number of bends from the return pump (laguna 7). now when i have the return pump running my overflow box fills and it will (given enough time) over full the tank. my bulk head is 25mm with 40mm waste pipe in overflow box and feeding the sump, i have removed the dorso from the top so i am now full syphon unrestricted (ie no cover or grill) my head height is now under a meter, and only 3 right angle bends, so this will have increased the flow from the laguna to almost unrestricted ie nearly 7000 litres an hour, on the old sump set up i had 6 right angles and a head height of approx 1.6m. so is it that my bulk head is too small to cope with the extra flow from the laguna? or have i done something wrong? :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 One of these plumber types like Chimera will know, but for the mean time, you said you removed the durso, is what's left close to the bottom of the tank? Is there any air trapped in the outlet pipe? You can get this working at least for now, by restricting the laguna with a tap or similar, but it will be nice when some others who know more than me can advise on what size outlet you need to ensure enough flow. Also, the pipe may clog a little over time, so you need spare capacity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 there shouldn't be any air in the pipe, as it fulls all the air is coming out and then it becomes bubble free, so i assume all the air is pushed out as the overflow box is full? i figure i will have to try getting a ball valve tomorrow and fitting that to a t section and reducing the flow that way, this will tell me if it is the bulk head that is restricting the flow. it must be the bulk head, as i cant see any other reason, all the plumbing for the overflow is below the level of the bulkhead, therefore its only restriction is the smallest hole, 25mm is larger than the return plumbing though, the return is 20mm pressure pipe, this has got me beat! off to the wholesalers in the morning and i will get a ball valve and see it that will fix it. :-? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelers Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 From what I've read 25mm is too small for that kind of of flow. You need 32mm I'd say at least. I was worried about this when I was looking at overflow options, its quite hard to find definate info on. Here's the RC calculator - I think it errs quite a bit on the on the safeside. http://www.reefcentral.com/calc/drain.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 thanks feelers, according to that calc i am way way under size, bugger! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Yes I'm with that, 25 ml def too small. The 20 ml return pipe works cos there is a heckuva lot more pressure from the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suphew Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 I use a up7 as well, and my down pipe uses a 40mm bulkhead. I think this might be a little large because until I put some bends and extra plumbing on my down pipe I had problems getting my durso to work. I guess its a little late to tell you this now, but I always work on the idea that it is better to have the plumbing to large and use reducers (as I have done with my closed loops which are 32mm) than to use too small plumbing and not have options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie extreme Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 i use a 25mm return and 25mm drain. at 4000 liters its at maximum capacity. i had do reduce to return pump a bit. i would go 40mm next time. thats at full syphon, had a durso before and just managed 32oo liters at the most. can you get a second hole drilled in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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