wasp Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 :lol: :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 That's a lame attempt at a justification if ever i've heard one. :-) Air is also noisy in an overflow. Wasn't that the reason the durso was created to begin with? If air was so good in the overflow, the durso wouldn't exist. ;-) Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 and i bet you complain to mummy when your dinner is cold. dont sweat the small stuff layton, you're starting to sound like my 8 week old puppy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I thought we were trying to keep it simple? Why bother with complex overflow systems? Why bother making a sump with baffles if you don't need to? Just offering suggestions, which happen to have good reasons behind them. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 I thought we were trying to keep it simple? Why bother with complex overflow systems? durso and baffles complex? ok, if you say so. more complex than a syphon? probably the same time to setup either method. Why bother making a sump with baffles if you don't need to? baffles serve other purposes too layton. for example, with baffles the water level in the first section is always at a constant level. this is handy to place heaters (you can be assured they will remain under water) or say if you had an in-sump skimmer. Just offering suggestions, which happen to have good reasons behind them thats fine, offer suggestions without discrediting other ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Why can't I discredit ideas? I gave perfectly reasons for it. Surely it's part of making an informed decision? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Why can't I discredit ideas? Layton You can if you insist, but that is how you get everybodies back up Layton. So much anger, you should focus on the constructive. Anyhow, instead of getting another thread locked, why not refer people to the origional durso thread, I'm pretty sure it's all been thrashed out, nothing to add. Back to sumps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 :roll: as usual, its more the way it's written than what you write. its a free world and you can post what you want, but IMO you come across as a sarcastic know-it-all smart arse who's opinion is stated as fact. most people think it, someone had to say it. many people value your advice - myself included, however why is it that more people seem to be irritated by your comments than anyone else? dont get me wrong, im not getting personal here nor am i putting you down, just take what i've said as constructive criticism and read what you've written before you submit it. theres more than one way to skin a cat. as wasp says, back to sumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 So much anger, you should focus on the constructive. :-? No anger there. Just discussion. Ignoring, or shifting focus away from flaws is not constructive. In fact it's the MOST important and constructive thing to do, especially during the planing stages. How many people wish they knew ALL of the ramifications of something, before they did it, rather than being surprised by some of the pitfalls after the fact. If people get their "back up" when I say things like this is that my fault? Should I stop, just because people don't like the sound of it? Is what i've said, incorrect, or opinion? No. People seem to be a little too precious about me dissecting the reasons behind different design or methodology decisions. Maybe it's because they see some truth in it? I state fact as fact, when i'm talking from opinion, I try to make sure I say so. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 All off your chest now? Back to sumps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 No anger there. Just discussion. Ignoring, or shifting focus away from flaws is not constructive. In fact it's the MOST important and constructive thing to do, especially during the planing stages of course, but... keeping on topic and using sumps as an example, you make it out that the full syphon is the only way to remove micro bubbles and any other method is flawed. the full syphon has its flaws too. i dont see you stating those? it leads people to believe that its the only true and tried method available. but wait? the durso works, sure it creates bubbles, but the bubbles are compensated by the baffles, the baffles serve more than one purpose, no micro bubbles in the display. this is still a viable solution is it not? my tank runs durso and baffles. i have NO micro bubbles in the display. but because the syphon method creates no bubbles, does that mean its the only method available? no, on the contrary BUT you post it like it is. do you see me discrediting the full syphon method? no, i would offer it as AN OPTION and state the advantages and disadvantages of both. be a little more open to all avenues, as i said before there is more than one way to skin a cat. oh, and the idea of providing ADVICE on a forum is exactly that, provide advice by showing advantages and disadvantages of various methods WITHOUT stating YOUR way as the ONLY way. let others decide whats best for their tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 4, 2006 Report Share Posted September 4, 2006 Don't actually have a sump myself, but I thought that was one of their functions, removing bubbles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Who said my way is the only way? Not me. One thing which i find kind of pointless is this phrase "there are many ways to skin a cat" Sure there are, but the fact is, is that there is always one BEST solution to a problem. The fact that there are many ends to a means is irrelevant, what matters is that the way you chose is the best for your situation. If the idea is to keep it as simple as possible, is using a durso which introduces bubbles, then using baffels to dissipate them the simplest solution? Or is a full siphon, with no need for baffles in the sump the simplest solution? Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Here is one of the discussions (arguments http://www.fnzas.org.nz/fishroom/help-w ... highlight= I ended up going with the full siphon, turned out: silent, no bubbles, constant level, IMO needs a backup pipe to sleep at night. But anyway back to the sump, the skimmer is the main source of the bubbles not the overflow. So baffles are necessary unless the water after the skimmer is really slow and deep with the return pump at the bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 My skimmer doesn't put any bubbles in the sump, guess it depends on design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Like building baffles into the skimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 :lol: :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pies Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 There is only one right way to do something. Hahahahaha let me guess, Laytons way. lol. If that was true, there would be 1 type of skimmer in the world. 1 type of TV. 1 type of car engine. 1 type of house design. 1 method for cooking steak. 1 type of computer. Should I go on? Layton you need to understand there are 'may ways to skin a cat'. There is no perfect, more correct soultion to all things. Hence the reason you spend hours of your time fighting loosing battles on this forum, you can't comprehend the fact that people choose to do things differently to you, because you think (thats right think) your right. But perhapps in a few years you will read back to previous threads on this forum and discover how immature you point of view is. As well as the skin the cat deal, there is the old 'proof is in the pudding' deal. We have seen pictures of your tank, and after over 3 years on this forum listening to all you advice, which is often debated with your refusal to listen and admit that you are wrong, often. You should take a look at your tank and someone elses, perhapps wasps. Because if all your advice gets results like whatr we have seen from you then you would have to question why you give advice in the first part. Or maybee it just proves that all your theorys are simply just one young boys opnion, based on nothing. Pie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KP Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 When he does say stuff, it sure is wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 I said there is always one BEST solution to a problem. Which is undeniably true. I not saying, and never have said, that the solution is the same for every situation. It depends on the persons circumstances, requirements, and priorities. Looking at all the possible solutions objectively will lead you to find the SINGLE best solution for your particular problem. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 All off your chest now? Back to sumps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lduncan Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 ... as long as people are finished making assumptions about what they THINK i'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasp Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 Absolutely. I see it all now. When you say something that is an opinion, you say so. All other pronouncements are facts. I state fact as fact, when i'm talking from opinion, I try to make sure I say so. Layton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimera Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 :roll: the BEST solution is not always the one that WORKS the best. things like "ease of use", "better priced", "more reliable" are some words that spring to mind. if that was not the case then 'the warehouse' would not exist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDM Posted September 5, 2006 Report Share Posted September 5, 2006 im am going to improve the sump setup on my current tank, so i will bounce some ideas i have around here. i am limited by size under my tank, or i could put some holes through my wall and go for a big sump. im thinking that i will have 3 "compartments" one for sump feed from overflow, one to house my skimmer (insump deltec 1250) heaters etc, and one for my return pump (luguna 7) as i said i am limited by space under my tank, i will post some measurements of what space i have avalable and dimentions of my equipment. looking for advice from experenced reefers, how would you set it up if you had the same equipment as me? i have used full syphon and dorso, i like the full syphon but i do not have the saftey stand pipe and would rather not have to drill my tank for a second stand pipe. is there a way around having the saftey pipe but still remain full syphon? im only interested in full syphon as im running out of room to have the baffels 50mm apart. i have no reason not to go through the wall other than its more work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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