David R Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 40 micron mechanical filtration that you never have to clean/change. http://youtu.be/HdzATPKVYqw Dirty water comes into the inside of the drum. When the mesh clogs the water levels get out of balance tripping a sensor that starts spinning the drum and spraying high press water on the outside of the drum. This washes the dirt into a catch tray mounted inside the drum and under the spray nozzles, which then runs out and down the drain. Gravity driven like a sump with built in overflow bypasses in case anything does clog. Obviously you need some sort of auto top-off/drip system to compensate for the water lost to cleaning it, but that is another step towards having a completely automated aquarium. Not cheap at US$2500, but when you consider the time/effort/water etc spent cleaning/replacing other mechanical filter medias it starts to look pretty attractive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 40 micron mechanical filtration that you never have to clean/change. http://youtu.be/HdzATPKVYqw Dirty water comes into the inside of the drum. When the mesh clogs the water levels get out of balance tripping a sensor that starts spinning the drum and spraying high press water on the outside of the drum. This washes the dirt into a catch tray mounted inside the drum and under the spray nozzles, which then runs out and down the drain. Gravity driven like a sump with built in overflow bypasses in case anything does clog. Obviously you need some sort of auto top-off/drip system to compensate for the water lost to cleaning it, but that is another step towards having a completely automated aquarium. Not cheap at US$2500, but when you consider the time/effort/water etc spent cleaning/replacing other mechanical filter medias it starts to look pretty attractive... Hmmm, I figure I'd spend an hour every 3 months cleaning my filters, $0 replacing filters. Or 4 hours/year. Say my time is worth $20 an hour that's $80nz cost to clean filters per year or $65us. So that means if I bought one now I would break even in May 2051. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I guess you're lazy then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 I guess you're lazy then. Lazy cleaning the filters when they need it? No, that's just practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted October 30, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 Not starting the filter cleaning debate again, if you think hanging onto three months worth of crap in a filter is a good idea then that is your prerogative, and I wouldn't expect something like this to be of interest to you. I'm sure there are still people out there who think the earth is flat too. Back on topic please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 30, 2013 Report Share Posted October 30, 2013 40 microns is reasonably course filtration. Years ago I used diatomaceous earth filters that were 1 micron and would filter diseases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Cool story bro. :facepalm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Now, what I DO like is the nice simple way it's it has of gauging the filter restriction, with the two tubes showing water head before and after the filter element. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah that is pretty cool, but only the beginning really. The fact that when it senses a difference between the two it cleans itself and performs a little water change for you is what impresses me! If you had enough circulation in the tank to prevent dead spots, then an overflow feeding into this thing, then a sump with some bio media and a clean water feed on a float valve, and a pump on a timer to regularly pump out old water you could have a completely maintenance-free aquarium. No water changes, no cleaning filters, just feed and enjoy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ira Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah that is pretty cool, but only the beginning really. The fact that when it senses a difference between the two it cleans itself and performs a little water change for you is what impresses me! If you had enough circulation in the tank to prevent dead spots, then an overflow feeding into this thing, then a sump with some bio media and a clean water feed on a float valve, and a pump on a timer to regularly pump out old water you could have a completely maintenance-free aquarium. No water changes, no cleaning filters, just feed and enjoy. You could probably get most of the way there with an autotopoff, cheap timer, relay and a solenoid valve on the filter inlet. Switch off the filter, open the valve and back flush the filter siphoning water out of the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Awesom! I want! I am all about efficienc. If i had anoth erbig tank, i would consi der it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted October 31, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Yeah it isn't for everyone, but I'm sure as time goes on they will become more affordable . They were originally build for koi ponds, there is a guy on MFK who runs a big one on his pond and is putting a 30-micron one on his Ultra High Tech 300 gallon Discus install, which is almost completely automated and digitally controllable, and expected to hit US$100-per-gallon cost! I'm not sure where Alan gets the idea that 40 micron is "coarse" in terms of aquarium filtration, as I'm sure you know from running 100-micron socks that they will catch almost everything that comes out of your fish. Compared to regular filter wool or sponge 40 micron (that is 0.04mm!) is incredibly fine, then consider that because of the regular self-cleaning nature of this filter nothing is going to be slowly breaking down to bypass it or gradually work it's way through he media over time with the flow of the water[unlike most forms of aquarium filtration]. If you were really a fussy bugger who wanted gin-clear water you could probably run a couple of 5-micron or even 1-micron socks after this, and I'd bet the amount of waste they would catch would be very minimal. I guess some people love new technology and innovation, others just stick with what they know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted October 31, 2013 Report Share Posted October 31, 2013 Alan gets the idea from dealing with rural water supplies for over 30 years where the treatment regime for a potable water supply was: 1 presettling in a large tank to remove course sediment. 2 filtering with 250-200 micron to remove the next lot. 3 filtering with 50 micron to remove the next lot. 4 polishing with 1 micron to remove disease organisms such as bacteria, giardia etc. 1 micron filters will remove parasites and most bacteria but 40 micron will just make the water look good. You have a good day now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Again, cool story, not really sure how it is relevant to the discussion at hand. Are you seriously suggesting 40 micron mechanical filtration isn't fine enough for the average aquarium? Compared to the usual sponge or wool 40 micron is incredibly fine. Most people I know of running filter socks use 100 micron, few use 50, and I've only ever seen a couple using anything less than that. Compared to the foam I'm using 40 micron is tiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovmoller Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Are you seriously suggesting 40 micron mechanical filtration isn't fine enough for the average aquarium? 1 micron filters will remove parasites and most bacteria but 40 micron will just make the water look good. To me it sounds like Alan is saying that a 40 micron filter is just fine for an aquarium. I for one enjoyed Alan's story about rural water treatment. Interesting and not entirely off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 To me it sounds like Alan is saying that a 40 micron filter is just fine for an aquarium. Whoops, I blame nightshifts for my mis-reading of that line, maybe I should stay off the net unless I've had >5 hours sleep... Perhaps we can rename this thread to "Alan's Campfire Filtration Stories and Sing-along thread" if people are more interested in hearing that than discussing the item I posted. Maybe if we're really lucky he'll actually share a photograph or two, presuming cameras were around back then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 I guess you can use an old woolen sock if you wish. I am simply pointing out the 1 micron will filter most diseases and 40 micron will not. The filters I refered to earlier are reverse flow diatamaceious earth filters which were very common years ago but I have not seen of late. I think they are still used in the USA. They were very good filters, especially when a bit of gunge had built up on the media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 old woolen sock? I very much doubt my work socks would catch 1-micron particles! Polypropylene needlefelt on the other hand... I've seen one person on MFK using a large DE filter (Haywards is the brand IIRC) with good results, but you're right that they aren't particularly popular. I don't think filtering to 1 micron is at all necessary with the average aquarium, and far from practical with a tank the size of mine, it would be handy for dealing with things like whitespot on clown loaches though. I know the drum filter isn't the finest form of filtration on the market, but you have to admit that 40micron and completely self cleaning is pretty damn cool, at least for us big tank guys! I've certainly never seen anything else like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Alan gets the idea from dealing with rural water supplies for over 30 years where the treatment regime for a potable water supply was: 1 presettling in a large tank to remove course sediment. 2 filtering with 250-200 micron to remove the next lot. 3 filtering with 50 micron to remove the next lot. 4 polishing with 1 micron to remove disease organisms such as bacteria, giardia etc. 1 micron filters will remove parasites and most bacteria but 40 micron will just make the water look good. You have a good day now. My two and a half cents. i use a 100 micron and been doin so for a long time, i have had 8 rotating 100 miron socks, 4 at a time in my set up, the media is no where near dirty enough to clean yet, and my water is quite clear. filter wool is much coarser than 100micron but that polishes up the water nicely. 100 micron is plenty, i ried 50, but thta clogs very fast. and the clarity reward ratio to cleaning ws not enough. as for 1 micron, i believe that will clog rapidly and will require pressure to push water through? i mean, if it traps even parasites, heck - you cant even see that and your filter will clog pretty quickly. i agree with david though, to say that 50 or 40 micron is too coarse, frankly i find that ridiculous, canister filters will never provide more than 50 micron if they are lucky - but that is very succesful in keeping aquariums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 old woolen sock? I very much doubt my work socks would catch 1-micron particles! Polypropylene needlefelt on the other hand... I've seen one person on MFK using a large DE filter (Haywards is the brand IIRC) with good results, but you're right that they aren't particularly popular. I don't think filtering to 1 micron is at all necessary with the average aquarium, and far from practical with a tank the size of mine, it would be handy for dealing with things like whitespot on clown loaches though. I know the drum filter isn't the finest form of filtration on the market, but you have to admit that 40micron and completely self cleaning is pretty damn cool, at least for us big tank guys! I've certainly never seen anything else like it. $2500 actually isnt so much if yo uthink about it. An ultima filter is 2k nzd for a good sized one, 800 to 1k for a smaller one. all they do is what your sump does but more efficient. a self cleaning barrel is very good to have. no consumables, no cleaning, and stuff in the sock that further decomposes also compromises your water quality in time if left long enough. each to their own though, i owuld buy one if i had the cash:D never again buy socks, never again clean the socks. just feed, feed feed! and press a button in my case 3 to 5 times a week to change water!!! ideal! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanmin4304 Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Since a couple of people with a love of large fish and large tanks with large filters seem to be having some problems understanding what I wrote in plain english while singing around the campfire. Your filter--which you put up for comment is based on the same principles as many commercial and industrial filters. It is a self cleansing backwash filter that is all, and it filters down to 40 microns. I commented that this will clarify the water but will not remove disease organisms. If that is what you want and you can afford it then it will be ideal for you both and I hope you get one each for xmas.The purpose of my comments about treatment of rural water supplies was not to get you both joining in the choruses around the campfire but to point out that prefilters are often requred to avoid too frequent a need to clean the finer filters. Your xmas present overcomes that by automatically backwashing the filter to clear it. However it will not filter diseases and I wish those filters were still available. I think my comments were relevent and were in no way intended to denegrate either of you or large fish tanks with large filters and I hope you continue to contribute usefully to this forum as you have been doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 there is a bit of noise produced from these units especially on the self cleaning cycle currently running one on 2 x 3,000 litre tanks similar units are available in nz but i wouldn't have it on the home aquarium due to noise about the same noise as the 2hp chiller Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Thanks for steering the discussion back on track Mark! You're right that the noise is one downside. Have you got a link to the NZ units? I'd be very interested in seeing them, I'm not sure I'd want one in my livingroom, but I'm sure enclosed in a box in my garage the noise could be sufficiently reduced. Are they made for aquarium use or adapted from something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livingart Posted November 1, 2013 Report Share Posted November 1, 2013 Small commercial unit from waste water treatment supplies. I just put forward 3 units i wanted then admin purchased it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted November 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2013 Brand/company? Pics? Cost? How is it working? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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