lmsmith Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 Could be from overfeeding, or there's phosphate bound somewhere that's leaching. Fresh water + substrate, and fresh water + rock, then test tomorrow should help isolate the issue - if it's not coming from those, there aren't many things left! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 have you used any pH chemicals, a couble of brands use phosphoric acid to lower pH giving readings. also have a good gravel syphon underneath all your rocks/wood/ornaments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 have you used any pH chemicals, a couble of brands use phosphoric acid to lower pH giving readings. also have a good gravel syphon underneath all your rocks/wood/ornaments She's just taken the entire tank apart and cleaned everything. I don't think that's the issue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted November 28, 2012 Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 :facepalm: :facepalm: my bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 28, 2012 I used to use PH Down, but not for months. Wasn't doing any good anyway. I'll just keep up with water changes for a while perhaps. There were all those rotting plants in there before, and I returned some of original water that I'd removed (not water that housed fish in bin). I just tested the hot water. Phosphate of nearly 2. Hot water cylinder issue? Pipes perhaps? I'm just relieved that I have a tangible reason for all of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 For elimination purposes, I've set up 2 buckets of water with a 0 Phosphate reading. One with a rock, one with substrate. In mild sunlight to raise temp (only cold water has 0 reading). I'll test in a couple of days, and see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Interesting that the hot water has a reading. Do you usually use some hot water when doing WCs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted November 29, 2012 Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 how does this current situation compare with this scenario earlier in the year? is it the same house? viewtopic.php?f=4&t=58145&hilit=bore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Yes, same house. The issue earlier in the year with the sick fish was ammonia, but I hadn't even considered Phosphate at that point. The manganese issue appears to have been resolved but flushing the mains several times, and keeping it up. It hasn't appeared for quite a while. BBA has struck twice, all plants die, which leads me to believe I've always had this issue. I add a little hot water to bring the temp up close to tank temp, then add to tank. Never been keen on adding straight cold water, especially with the heater off. I'll start boiling fresh cold water, then adding to the buckets. Have to be quick as repeatedly boiling water increases sodium levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted November 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2012 Question... As activated carbon can increase phosphate levels, could my use of Excel have raised the levels as it's a carbon product??? I used it to fight BBA several times, but the slime increased from that point on, and never recovered. Curious as BBA loves phosphate and low nitrates, bi-product being brown algae, and makes it difficult for plants to survive.... Being carbon, could my use of excel tipped the tank over the edge when already it was already dealing with P04 and low N03? :nilly: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted December 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Ammonia .25 Nitrates 10ppm PH 8.4!! Phosphate now at 5!! Lots of water changes of course. Could the dang snail infestation that came with the plants (lazy loaches) be pushing the bioload too high? Cartridges were replaced at tank overhaul, new sponge in tonight (hood filter). Brown slime negative, reduced light blitzed green algae but the BBA is appearing on rocks. 0 Phosphate reading on the rock and gravel in buckets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 seriously consider tearing down the tank and starting from scratch.... there is something seriously strange going on there... do you have any children that can access the tank???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted December 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 I have a 3 year old, but she can't reach. She does know the rules about "Mummy's fish tank" and even asks if she can watch when they're eating, to the point of coming to get me from another room. Tearing down as in getting rid of and buying new? What about my fish? &c:ry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophia Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 seriously consider tearing down the tank and starting from scratch.... there is something seriously strange going on there... How can you advise someone to start the tank again and yet still be asking questions about the cause of the problem? Dana, it seems to me that there is 'something in the water' or rather a combination of water plus nutrients you are unable to control, rather than anything you are doing wrong. Before you throw the whole lot out, perhaps consider setting up another tank, or even just a container of water and see what happens so you have something to compare to.... it would be a shame to start all over again and then find the same thing happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 seriously consider tearing down the tank and starting from scratch.... there is something seriously strange going on there... do you have any children that can access the tank???? She HAS torn it down and started from stratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 Ammonia .25 Nitrates 10ppm PH 8.4!! Phosphate now at 5!! Lots of water changes of course. Could the dang snail infestation that came with the plants (lazy loaches) be pushing the bioload too high? Cartridges were replaced at tank overhaul, new sponge in tonight (hood filter). Brown slime negative, reduced light blitzed green algae but the BBA is appearing on rocks. 0 Phosphate reading on the rock and gravel in buckets. Alrighty, it's awesome that we've narrowed it down. I would try doing a huge water change to get your phosphate down as low as possible (maybe leave the water sitting out to get up to room temp before adding it into your tank, so it's not cold and you don't have to add hot). Take a phoshate reading. Do your regular routine with lighting, but don't feed the tank. Do another phosphate reading in 5 days without feeding and see how much the fish are adding to the system. I wonder if it's also worth setting up another container of a similar size and ghost feeding it then doing a phosphate reading - that way you can see if the fish or food are adding more phosphate? If it's the food, you can change to a lower phosphate food. If it's the fish, you can reduce the bioload by taking out some fish and seeing if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted December 3, 2012 Report Share Posted December 3, 2012 I'm wondering what food you are using - type and brand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 JBL Flakes, Wardley Shrimp pellets, Hikari wafers and frozen blood worms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueether Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 rinsing the bloodworms well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsmith Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 rinsing the bloodworms well? Randy has shown than rinsing removes about 1% of the phosphate in food, so it's not going to be the primary issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I defrost in aquarium water and drain well, but no, I haven't rinsed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F15hguy Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I have noticed previously that the algae wafers that are uneaten sink into the gravel and rot quite quickly (I have had a couple of issues with this before) shrimp pellets never last longer than 5 mins but the algae wafers that are uneaten can be really bad (not saying its bad to feed them, they are great for many fish, just make sure they are being eaten and not just breaking apart into your gravel ) just an observation I have made Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godly3vil Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I use the JBL algae wafers and they seem to last alright for around 3 hours @ 29c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henward Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I would remove all plants, do a good gravel siphon. Then i would put in a bristle nose or 2. they will destroy all the algae with in days. as for black beard algae, scrap them off the walls, brush of fthe rocks, and start again wtih plants. i owuld take your light bulb in that unit and spray paint it black partially to reduce light, those tanks are notorious for too much light, look sgood though, nice and bright. royal plecos, small panaques i found each young black beard algae. so if you scrap the old ones, the new ones will be eaten by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dana Posted December 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2012 I would remove all plants, do a good gravel siphon. Then i would put in a bristle nose or 2. they will destroy all the algae with in days. as for black beard algae, scrap them off the walls, brush of fthe rocks, and start again wtih plants. i owuld take your light bulb in that unit and spray paint it black partially to reduce light, those tanks are notorious for too much light, look sgood though, nice and bright. royal plecos, small panaques i found each young black beard algae. so if you scrap the old ones, the new ones will be eaten by them. Cheers, the tank was gutted as per earlier in the thread, the plants were already changed and I already have a b/nose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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