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External Filter on a Juwel 180


bottlerocket

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I want to run an external filter as well as the built in Juwel filter on my Juwel 180. With the location of the input/output slots on the rear of the tank I think I will need to run a spray bar to get past the built in filter. I am thinking Fluval 305 or Jebo 815. Does anyone have suggestions or advice on this. Can you get a spray bar to fit the fluval??

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I want to run an external filter as well as the built in Juwel filter on my Juwel 180. With the location of the input/output slots on the rear of the tank I think I will need to run a spray bar to get past the built in filter. I am thinking Fluval 305 or Jebo 815. Does anyone have suggestions or advice on this. Can you get a spray bar to fit the fluval??

IMHO a 305 is a bit overkill for a 180l tank, even more so when you are also running a large internal filter in unison.

Yes, you can get spray bar kits for the Fluvals, but I haven't found them in NZ.

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Not overkill at all.

I would have suggested nothing smaller than a 405.

I run 2 405's and an eheim 2028 on my 200L(+/-) planted tank.

you can order the spray bars for any fluval filter, just speak to someone who can call the supplier to find out more.

There is no such thing as over filtration. You can adjust the way the water flows in any tank of reasonable size with a little common sense and planning.

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Not overkill at all.

I would have suggested nothing smaller than a 405.

I run 2 405's and an eheim 2028 on my 200L(+/-) planted tank.

you can order the spray bars for any fluval filter, just speak to someone who can call the supplier to find out more.

There is no such thing as over filtration. You can adjust the way the water flows in any tank of reasonable size with a little common sense and planning.

Hmmmm, but I understand you only vacuum your gravel twice a year?

The point I was making is that if you have only a moderate/moderate-high fish load the extra money spent on a bigger filter is not really going to show any improvement - so effectively that money is wasted. The denitrifying bacteria will only grow to the amount of food (ammonia/nitrites) available, having a greater volume of water going past the biological media ain't going to make a scrap of difference if the bacteria is already at maximum population. After all, it is hard to get nitrites and ammonia any lower than 0ppm by adding a bigger filter.

I have had a 204 running on a 180l tank for 10 years and that has been fantastic, even when I hadn't done water changes for a few months at times (I say rather guiltily!).

I suppose I don't want to see Bottlerocket wasting money that could be spent on fish (especially as there is already an internal filter running)!

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So why overlook mechanical filtration then?

The price difference between a 305 and a 405 is not vast, and the benefits of having a larger filter that could be used at a later date on a larger tank far outweigh the marginal cost difference.

most people will over stock their tanks, simply because the term over stock for most parts refers to the biological load your tank can handle.

Hmmmm, but I understand you only vacuum your gravel twice a year?

how is that even relevant? I use the redundancy concept for my tank. gives me greater flexibility if things do ever go wrong.

Always, always get a filter that is larger than what you actually need. it beats having to get a bigger filter next time around just because you have either too many fish in one tank, or the smaller filter is not cutting it, or even for a future tank upgrade.

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I dont know how well this would work for you but it is what I did:

You could avoid having a spray bar by just pumping back in to the filter box and talking the water out of the tank form the other end. It would also mean that you are diffusing the flow a bit too.

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So why overlook mechanical filtration then?

Because mechanical filtration doesn't remove the material from the system, it only stores it in a form that allows it to be removed by a manual process (ie take filter (or 3) apart and remove). Much the same process as vacuuming, except that vacuuming removes the material immediately.

how is that even relevant?

Fish poo contains a lot of ammonia, plants can't use ammonia, ergo need more filtration. Quite simple really, and relevant. :)

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Always, always get a filter that is larger than what you actually need. it beats having to get a bigger filter next time around just because you have either too many fish in one tank, or the smaller filter is not cutting it, or even for a future tank upgrade.

You're not a salesman by any chance?

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Thanks so far guys. So is Fluval the choice over the Jebo, and is a spray bar more suited in the set up that I will have. Only problem with the Fluvals is they dont have a sparybar and the suppliers dont have any, is there another spraybar that would fit the fluval

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Thanks so far guys. So is Fluval the choice over the Jebo, and is a spray bar more suited in the set up that I will have. Only problem with the Fluvals is they dont have a sparybar and the suppliers dont have any, is there another spraybar that would fit the fluval

There are plenty available on the internet, if you can be bothered with ordering overseas!

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Upset? Don't flatter yourself mate, I just don't care any more. :)

At the risk of being accused of 'having the last word' (!!) :D. Quite clearly I am not flattering myself, I am calling it the way it looks. If you are not upset, then why, and I quote directly, "I just don't care any more"?

I do not wish to continue this as it is starting to get into a situation that is rather silly, and this thread is supposed to just be offering advice to bottlerocket.

I hope the little bit of science that I have provided in my posts will assist bottlerocket to make an informed decision.

cheers

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Settle down you two or I will bang your heads together! :roll:

Having had Fluvals and Jebo I prefer the Jebo for ease of maintenance. I have a Jebo 819 running on a 280L tank. Been going almost 3 years now I think and been cleaned 2x. First time was after 12 months and we were curious to open it up, it didn't really need cleaning. After it had been running another 12 months we cleaned it again. It was chock full of gunk but still good flow. We haven't cleaned it since and it has been running another 12 months approx. Flow still good as long as I clean the holes in the spray bar occasionally as they clog with leaf bits the fish have nibbled off.

Our Fluval 404 would clog after a few weeks and we always had difficulty getting the top off it then getting it started again once we had finished.

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There are other ways of putting a spraybar on bro, not neccesarilly the OEM versions, but you can jimmy a connector up, surely?there are a multitude of fixtures and fastners that you can apply if you walk down a plumbing isle in your local and think abit.

just an option.

and fishplants:

by the use of NH4/NH3 (ammonium/ammonia) nitryfying bacteria are able to produce n02 (nitrite) and NO3 (nitrate) the latter of which is accesible to plants.

phoenix44 and myself (and many others) work on the basis of sand/gravel beds whereby the waste products are incorporated into the substrate, where their breakdown to NO3 is beneficial to the plants, and a natural fertiliser. with enough plants in the tank they should out-weigh the bioload of the inhabitants. Ergo, no need to vaccum your tank once the process has started, only W/C needed. slightly more W/C is needed when this system is starting up, but once running is an effective removal of the NO3.

Water turnover and the mechanical filtration of floating debris is facilitated by the canister, whereby it is trapped to undergo the same process of decay, and "polishing" the water (whilst also allowing another place for nitryfying bacteria to live grow and do thier job.)

i agree that for the price difference compared to water turnover, and the benifits thereof, going bigger now definately makes a vast improvement later. also realising that as time goes on, canisters loose a certain amount of effeciency compared to when they are new. so a canister that will "do the job" now wont neccesarily be doing it in a years time.

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Settle down you two or I will bang your heads together! :roll:

Goodness me that brings back memories....or rather I can't remember much after dozens of head-banging episodes with my cousin Larry. :o

Bottlerocket, I tried the Fluval 205 on my 180L tank and found the flow wasn't very good - not enough water movement so the plants weren't doing well and there was lots of detritus buildup in dead zones of the tank - then I upgraded to a 405 and the difference was amazing. I have a heavily planted tank and a heavily stocked tank. I feed the fish a lot (free plant fertilizer) and I pretty much never vacuum the substrate and there are no areas of detritus buildup. I do a water change only about once every 4-6 weeks and only because I like clear water, not because the nitrates are high. I only clean the filter when the flow diminishes but I haven't really had to clean it now for about 6 months.

I am sure your needs for filtration will be less because you have that internal filter. Why were you wanting to add another filter on there? Were you just looking for a backup? Or perhaps increased flow? If you just want a backup then almost any of these will be suitable, if you wanted more flow, then bigger is better (within reason).

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Thanks Cricketman, great explanation!

I'm more than happy with my 10 year old 204 that has been running 24/7 for that time (apart from last year when it sprung a leak!) on the same 180l tank, with moderate-high fish load and healthy plants. And the money I saved on not buying a 304 (or multiple filters) has been spent many times over on fish and plants! :D:D

The current Discus seem real happy and the 10 year old Bristlenose ( 2cm long when I bought the tank) is still happily bossing everyone around! Oh, and by the way, the water is crystal clear.

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Phoenix44 and Cricketman, would you mind elaborating? (and sorry bottlerocket for hijacking your thread).

If I have read correctly, leaving fish poo/plant pieces etc in the gravel is a good thing as it is a natural fertiliser and the denitrifying bacteria break this down into nitrate, when you are talking about a heavily planted tank.

The bit I would like you guys to help me understand is - if it is good to have this detritus in the gravel, why would you want massive fitration which means more of it gets trapped in the filter and less in the gravel? While obviously the results of the breakdown of the detritus (NO3) is still available via the filter, why bother with massive filtration if the gravel is sufficiently performing the task? It sounds like you guys are not really using the filter mainly for it's biological capabilities?

Is the filter there (almost) purely as a water polisher ie cosmetic value?

I suppose that where I am going with this is, that if you have 'trained' the bacteria living in your gravel to deal with massive amounts of waste (more so than if you vacuumed weekly/fortnightly/monthly, then a biological filter is less of a requirement rather than more. Make sense?

In my (rather simple) mind, your gravel will be doing such a great job that you could run one filter with filter wool only (no biological media at all) just to ensure suspended matter is removed from view?

Also, if NO3 for the plants is so desirable, why have such large/frequent water changes?

Your thoughts would be most welcome.

cheers

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So what im getting is bigger is better. Can anyone offer any more advise between the Fluval or Jebo filters. The Fluvals cost a bit more than the Jebos, what am I getting for the extra $$$

jenniferh - I want to add the external along with the Juwel filter just for more filtration and I have read that the Juwels dont do such a great job on there own.

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You will find there are a lot of different opinions about filters, everyone has their favorites. Eheim is arguably the top brand in terms of engineering and it is very quiet. Fluval runs a close second to Eheim and is better in terms of flow. Both of these brands have a lot of support in terms of extra parts if you ever need them. I don't have any experience with Jebo but I do know people who like them a lot.

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So what im getting is bigger is better. Can anyone offer any more advise between the Fluval or Jebo filters. The Fluvals cost a bit more than the Jebos, what am I getting for the extra $$$

apparently quality and a better filter but i would have to say having used a 819 and a few different fluvals i dont think i would bother with jebos as the seals break down quickly and the taps end up leaking and fluvals just tend to be horrible to maintain i prefer aqua1 externals over these they are cheaper too

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