Pies

We drilled some holes in Suphews tank, and used a dremal to make the hole bigger. To run enough water Jigsaw used a weed sprayer filled with water, running into the hole. Worked well.

Its common sense, wasn't worth the effort saying it. Similar to saying "heater = water the correct temprature" "no heater - Water to cold, fish and inverts probably die with 6-48 hours". Adding saltwater to the tank = "Fish can swim in a more natural environment" Adding bleech to tank = "Fish melt" Some things just are not worth pointing out. Pie

Test kits (nitrite/Nitrate/Amonia/PH/KH), buckets, salinity measurement devices etc are not accessories. The are required to setup the system. Pie

You will probably find that 400s work out cheaper. The running gear is cheaper to get started and bulbs are cheaper. They will cost more to run, but probably cheaper when you consider the difference in bulb prices. Pie

Lets not argue about it Piemania

Ahem. Green cap to the CAPitol please.

Agree completely. Pieman

Its not often Layton and I agree on things like this, but I am going to go with it. Here is a statement. The water required to keep corals+fish and just fish should be the same. Unless of course you are advocating that fish are hardier thus they can live is substandard/un-natural conditions. Reef water is reef water, regardless of its intention. OK how about this: no skimmer/inadiquite skimming = unhealthy environment for most fish and invertibrates, longevity of live-stock is questionable due to poor water conditions. adiquite skimming (over skimming?) = Healthy environment for most fish & inverts, longevity of live-stock greatly improved, pristine water paramaters possible. Now that we have it defined, choose, skim or not to skim? Pie

Often the difference between a successfull tank and a failed one is that of the skimmer. Not have to read to much in books or the internet to find that out. "The biggest advance in marine fish tanks since the advent of the glass heater is the protein skimmer" Bob Fenner. Not reccomending a skimmer is poor, if not negligent advice. This goes 10 fold for a beginner. I see the comments about 'Layton loosing the arguement'. What a complete crock, have a look around and OPEN YOUR EYES, I would guess 99% of all reefkeepers are using a skimmer. Do you think we use them because we like the idea of spending our money on worthless equipment? I am tireing of seeing this 'advice', more like propoganda. Show me your results, if you really want to push the point lets compare yours with mine. I've already showed you mine, lets see yours, prove to us all why skimming is un-nessessary. Pie

I am using Visitherm heaters, $18.00 for a 300watt at Hutt Pet Center, less 10% discount for being a FNZAS member. I think saying "no imports" is a little off (PetPlanet does own a pet store, (and I think Bruce does as well??) hence the protest to importing). I see no 'legit' reason to put people off internation/internet purchases. Why bother to list prices if your not going to list the 'street' price, which is quite different to the NZ Retail store price. Anyone can do it, look in the T&E section Chimera has organised a shipment for all of us so we can avoid the retail margins. I would much rather buy an Ehiem pump from over seas, than buy a 'Resun' pump locally if the prices were the same. Pies

Ehiem retail will be more than IWAKI imported. Go with the IWAKI. cheaper, better, last longer, less heat transfer. 25L water containters are too heavy, use 20L, much easier to lug around. Pie

WOK - You can definatly setup a 3 foot marine tank, I wouldn't if it was me, but I have seen a few. Require a little more patience and skill, but can be done. I wouldn't reccomend setting up a tank without a skimmer, regardless of size. There are lots of 2nd hand skimmers around, and some fair priced new ones. My reccomendation would be to buy one once, many people have brought a cheap one and had to repurchase later on because it wasn't up to the task. Do it once, do it right. After you have your tank and skimmer, think on the sump. As stated somewhere else (this thread?) I would highly reccomend one. But you can do it without one (I think briananemone runs a small tank without one). Then source your rock. This is enough to get things going, you already have freshwater so you should be able to find heaters, tubes for lighting, pumps for circulation but if you can't you will need them. Test kits etc are necessary, but I am sure you can borrow some initially if you can't afford to buy them. Invest in them at some stage though, testing water is key to success. Keep the bioload low in a small tank is probably the key to success, over stocking will only cause problems and increase expense as you will need to work so much harder to maintain water quality. Patience is free, hold off addition of fish for as long as possible. Anemone for the clowns. I am sure that you can keep an Anemone in a shallow tank under fluros (pref T5s), but a halide is you best bet. You can go DIY (from Radium) and get a bulb and ballast all ready to go for less than $250.00, build you own reflector. Don't be put off starting, its such a rewarding hobby. But I urge you to be realistic about the costs. You should be able to filter out the guff around the place but if you can spend a few thousand dollars you will get there, it may work out less (or more) but if you are prepared to see it through you can have successful tank. So to make my point clear, you will need all the obvious things like heaters, lighting, thermomotor that you would need in a freshwater tank plus: A skimmer is a must Rock is a must Test kits and refractomoter are a must Circulation pumps (2 or more) are a must Timers for lights and pumps are a must That should get you going. but there is more, saltwater supply, freshwater supply etc etc. Do it, you will love it, but there is a cost and this is the reason saltwater is less popular than freshwater, ultimatly its more expensive. Right or wrong, its a fact. good luck Pie

Shae - The sump downstairs is noisey at the moment because I am putting about 7000 litres and hour through a 3 foot sump, which is over-working it to the extreme. When I move it to the room, the tank should only make a whisper, but the skimmer will always make that 'hushing' noise and I don't think there will be much I can do about that. Piezloa

I listed everything I think you need to build a tank, regardless of size its pretty much the same, small tank = small skimmer less rock, large tank = big skimmer more rock. I am with Layton, I see no point in listing a configuration that wont work, and suspect most people what to know how to do thing correctly, not how to do them wrong. Pie

I am bellow the 40 a year average that reef posted the other day Pieola

Kapi Mana Fish Club meeting at my place tonight, hope I get a chance to quickly sand the last of the top coat of plaster off before people arrive. Then its finish the flashings and paint time. woohooo! Then the sump move, ACK!

hahahahaha. Its funny the PMs and emails i've got about this post too. Pie

opps, can't delete my post.

Hot tips sounds like a good idea, however I am not sure I could endorse using drain cleaner in a tank... Piemania

Then drop it. I would say its very un-cool to say that what people are writing is rubish or unintelligent. Because if I was going to point the un-intelligent rubish finger, it would be pointed directly at your $500.00 marine tank theory. Personally I am only interested in helping people who want to setup something that works and works well. If you want reccomend a system that will work poorly but be cheap, continue the way your going. It seems the difference between you and everyone else is we all want to help a new hobbist setup a successful system, you however seem bent on proving that you can keep a pair of clowns in a bowl and that is a satisfactory setup. Somewhere else on this board you made comments about they way you have been treated. Looking at what you just wrote I would say that you deserve everything you get, in spades. Pies

SUMP - The first thing to remember is that a sump is WELL worth the effort, and its hard to image anyone reccomending not using one. With that out of the way the sump provides many advantages. Somewhere to store the heaters, filters, carbon, resins, thermomitors, skimmers and any other equipment. Sumps increase the overall amount of water in the system so its more water per livestock than is possible in the main tank. It keeps the water level in the main tank level at all times, evaporation will lower the sump water level, not the tank. This also means that water changes are much easier as you just remove water from the sump and replace water into the sump, far less disruptive to the stock and easier as the sump is typically lower. You can grow food in the sump (mysidd shrimp, copepods) and also grow calurpa or other alage to increase water stability. Water paramaters will be more stable as the water quantity increases. Somewhere to put stock thats being damaged by fish or corals to keep it alive long enough to figure out what to do with it. The return from the sump creates water movement and most configurations (durso overflow systems) remove the film of the top of the water, increasing airation and light penentration. For people like me it means I can have my sump in a different room (the remote sump setup) so I don't have to do messy water changes and water tests in my lounge and drip saltwater through the house. Phew, thats mostly it. Sumps are good. Powerheads - not so important to begin with, just use anything you have (old pumps) or choose your path. Buy good quality stuff now and never replace it, or buy cheap now knowing they won't last. Easy enough to change later. Yes cut holes. I can help with the design of the overflow system, have build 5 now, all have worked out brilliantly. Return pump from the sump. BIGGER is better. Look at an Ehiem 1260 or better. Lots of 2nd hand ones around for $120 or less. Rock and cycling. Everyones opnion will change, the bottom line is the longer you wait the better. I would look at 3 months if you can handle the wait, others will have different opnion. One thing for sure, the cycle in saltwater is much harsher than in freshwater, its different so beware. Budget - You can do it on a budget, and I don't want to quote numbers. If you are prepared to spend 2k, you will get a good setup that should have long term success and the ability to keep a wide arangement of life. Use a skimmer. DIY is fine, often DIY can offer better results than store brought, but beware, the internet has brought prices right down, I have used little DIY as with the NZ dollar at the moment its just easier to spend the cash. YMMV. Good luck Pie

During the summer we just open a window during the day. We also have a dehumidifier running in the lounge. I have measured evaporation and its fairly consistant during the day and night for me. I have a fan running accross my lights during lights on. Because the tank is in the lounge I would hate to have to put an extractor in as in the winter it would remove all the heat! During summer it wasn't a problem, we have noticed a lot more condensation on the windows throughout the house, but its hard to know if its the tank or if we jusn't don't remember it? Either way its not much of a problem. Can't wait to get the room finished. Going to be awesome to get the new sump (3 foot tank is 2 small for 2000 litres of water and an IWAKI100 & IWAKI 30, lots of bubbles). Also the new sump will have an overflow preventing the garage from flooding. Also means I should be able to do water changes from outside and no need to even bring water in! So that should be cool. And the biggest thing, it should mark the end of ALL spending on the tank outside of running costs and maintenance. Thank god Go the door. Go the wall. Pie

Lots going on but of major interest to most will be the sump room. Here is a pic of the existing nightmare sump setup. 2 sumps on top of each other. This is my old setup, for the new setup the bottom 3 foot tank will be replaced with a 6 foot purpose build sump. Start with the wall. Thats Suphew in the background measuring and re-measuring. Build the wall on the ground then mount it into space: Again the wall: NOTE: I would like add at this point that the wall is awesome. Suphew and I worked damn hard and we couldn't have been any happier with the way it went up and looked. Best damn wall in the city. Out best buy, the door & jam from a house parts company. Again I would like to say that I challenge anyone to swing a door as well as this, perfectimundo. We were so eager to get a sheet of gib up we laid in some bats and screwed the sucker up there! AWESOME! All batted up and looking good. Still electricity to do and a few other improvements to add: Getting the gib up. Awesome pic of the door Gibed and plastered: Gibed and plastered, note expel air unit to remove excessive moisture and help with cooling in summer: Again expel air, and power including the RCD for the downstairs unit (another RCD is fitted upstairs). So thats where its at. A quick sand (3rd coat plaster is on and drying as I write this) tommorow and its ready to paint! Note that the room is missing a wall? The wall comes after the sump is in, as its far to big to fit through the door! A BIG thanks to Suphew, who has designed and built more than his fair share of this room. Its all looking great, and hard to belive that in a few short weeks it will be finished and I will be ready to move the sump and finally remove all of this tempory plumbing etc that has been consuming our garage for the past 12 months. Enjoy Pies

Its here (check the banners at the top of this site), imported by Reef (Aquanet). Not sure which stores carry it. Pie

Ehiem or Fluval. I've had Jebo & Resun etc and they start out well but don't last the test of time. YMMV. Pie