My African Cichlid tank journal

[David R]

PT640 is for 1.5"/40mm plumbing. I used a short length of clear vinyl tube to join the adapter to the 40mm PVC waste pipe, it just needed a bit of encouragement after being soaked in boiling water to stretch over the 40mm pipe (and always use hose clamps if you're doing this, the vinyl tube eventually becomes hard and can pop off if not clamped on). If you're going with 32mm return plumbing then the 1-1/4" PT-639 would be the adapter you need.

[Trelize]

So here is my sump plan , exercised my MS Paint skills a bit today !! wish I could use Google Sketchup ...

Anyways, opinions would be appreciated ...

Basics are from Tank --> Bio tower (Pre filter, Bio Balls, Sinteredglass or Bio Noodles) --> overflow -->

--> Poret Foam (10ppi then 30ppi possibly ?) --> Bubble trap -- > Heaters --> Return Pump.

[camtang]

Do you use metal hose clamps David? Or are plastic availabe?

[smidey]

i recommend a filtration amount of 5 to 6 times the tank volume an hour so if your tank is around 600L then 3000lph to 3600lph is plenty so that pump will be more than enough.

On my 400L tank i have two canisters, rated at a total of 2200lph (so in reality is less) and that is plenty.

[David R]

I use the stainless steel ones. Came home one day to find my old fish room in Auckland completely silent (never a good sign!) and the hose had popped off the return pump on the 6' tank turning it into a fountain aimed straight at the multi board on the stand behind the sump! Luckily it had tripped the circuit breaker and there was no damage, just a complete black out for a couple of hours. Never again will I rely on the grip of the hose over even a barbed fitting like some of the pumps have!

As for the sump plans, they look pretty sound. My only concern would be what are you going to use for mechanical filtration? I've had several sumps like that, and even when using AquaOne 'Micro Pads' (which catch most of the finer stuff but also clog really quickly) under filter wool I would get crud building up in the bottom of the sump. The trickle media is great, but IME not necessary for even fairly heavily stocked tanks, which is why I would prefer to opt for better mechanical media (ie filter socks) and just simple ceramic rings, sintered glass or Pond Matrix submerged for bio filtration.

Without knowing your dimensions it's hard to tell, but I'd say the Poret foam isn't going to be necessary with that sump. My old heavily stocked 6' set up (green aro, dats, bichir, cichlids, TT eel) had a similar design with bio balls and ceramic noodles and the bio was more than adequate for that stock even with the large heavy feedings of meaty food (the mechanical on the other hand was somewhat lacking). I'll see if I can find the dimensions to see how much media was in there, but it wasn't a massive amount.

[smidey]

I'd also invest in GH/KH and a TDS meter seems how you're most likely to be playing around with the hardness of your water. Seems like a bit of money at the time, but they will last for yonks once your tank is settled and running.

i think messing around with hardness and ph is not necessary and potentially asking for trouble. The reason i think that is that i have never ever done any of that in the 7 or 8 years i have kept africans including tanganyikan species. I have only ever looked at ph levels to make sure they are in the higher range rather than lower like 5 or 6 and in fact have not owned a test kit in like three years as i know that my levels are stable. It is very important to use them when setting up but after several months of testing and getting the same answer i gave up and haven't bothered since.

My water sources have varied from town water supply which is kept on the side of alkaline so acidic water doesn't eat away the mains fittings etc and am currently on tank water and thankfully my tanks are concrete. I agree if you had plastic tanks that raising the levels would be required.

I understand the theory of the hardness over the ph etc and the target of what people recommend your water to be at but it seems the recommended levels are based on what they are in the lakes of origin. The fish we keep, unless somehow you get your hands on WC fish, have always lived in tap water type conditions so i don't think messing around with that is a good idea. I think that if it is stable and constant then your are much better off even if it is not to "Lake spec".

I have crushed marble substrate and shells in my tanks as buffers but i don't add anything that adjusts water parameters, never have. I have had awesome success with africans, bred & sold over 1000 fry of various species and had very few if any health issues. Never had a case of bloat with tropheus and the colouring my fish show is always very good so even if i tested my parameters today and they were well off what some say they should be i wouldn't change anything as the fish show me the conditions are good by being healthy, colourful and regularly breeding.

there are endless facts available about what your parameters should be based on lake conditions but nothing the documents the history of the fish you buy, what they, their parents or predecessors have been living in and it is very unlikely that they are accustomed to book documented lake conditions. Your best bet would be to test the tank they come out of and match that.

[Trelize]

As for the sump plans, they look pretty sound. My only concern would be what are you going to use for mechanical filtration? I've had several sumps like that, and even when using AquaOne 'Micro Pads' (which catch most of the finer stuff but also clog really quickly) under filter wool I would get crud building up in the bottom of the sump. The trickle media is great, but IME not necessary for even fairly heavily stocked tanks, which is why I would prefer to opt for better mechanical media (ie filter socks) and just simple ceramic rings, sintered glass or Pond Matrix submerged for bio filtration.

Without knowing your dimensions it's hard to tell, but I'd say the Poret foam isn't going to be necessary with that sump. My old heavily stocked 6' set up (green aro, dats, bichir, cichlids, TT eel) had a similar design with bio balls and ceramic noodles and the bio was more than adequate for that stock even with the large heavy feedings of meaty food (the mechanical on the other hand was somewhat lacking). I'll see if I can find the dimensions to see how much media was in there, but it wasn't a massive amount.

Hey David , the dimension's planned for the sump are 900 x 500 x 400mm ,

I am a little lost when it comes to Mechanical media ? Filter socks ? ... so before it goes through the Bio balls I should try get the majority of the gunk off ?

That's if I even need the Bio balls ?

[David R]

I am a little lost when it comes to Mechanical media ? Filter socks ?

These things;

That is the sump for my old 1400L tank, with half as many socks as it needed and twice as much bio media!! You can get them from www.particlesolutionz.co.nz and they come in a variety of sizes. For your tank I'd say two of the "01" size (about 190mm diameter and 420mm long) would be sufficient if partially raised up out of the water. There are many good things about them, the best being their ability to catch fine particles (I ran 100 micron, you can get them down to 5 micron or less I believe!) and unless you let them clog to the point of overflowing they can't be bypassed, unlike a piece of wool or pad sitting in the top of a sump as per your picture [and several of my old sumps]. They're easy enough to clean, turn inside out and rinse, then machine wash if your wife is ok with it, or not home! For comparison, this is a sheet of 45ppi Poret (the fine stuff) compared to a 100micron sock;

The down side is that the height. The more sock you have out of the water the more effective gravity is at pulling the water through them meaning longer intervals between cleans. This makes it difficult to have a trickle tower with bioballs above the water level, but whether this is necessary is up to the individual. I've seen plenty of nice set ups with sumps that are as simple as an old aquarium with a couple of filter socks suspended above it with a few bags of ceramic rings sitting in the water. No baffles or nothing! With the sump I posted above I managed to have half the media above the water level and nearly half the socks above water, but it was about 800mm tall plus the height of the plumbing, not something that you can easily stuff into the average aquarium cabinet!

If you've got your heart set on having a trickle tower then you're probably best to stick with something like you've shown. If not, then seriously consider the socks, they are certainly the best mechanical filtration you'll get for a set up like this. I didn't opt for them with my 2000L tank for various reasons, but if I were setting up something smaller and/or not intending to house big super-messy Panaques then I'd use them again in a heartbeat.

Smidey, I agree for the most part, except to say I'd always still keep a test kit handy even if I didn't use it regularly, pH would be one of the first things I check if the fish aren't looking right. IF you are going to mess around with water parameters then do it properly and test regularly. It certainly isn't necessary to replicate the exact environment of the habitat your fish originate from though, and your successes are proof that quite often 'close enough' is fine.

[Trelize]

Cool , so how does this sound then ,

From tank --> Filter Socks --> Sintered Glass --> Overflow then through the Poret --> Heaters --> Return

I have already bought the tower I am using stackable crates and I think I could reshuffle them making the larger section the top for the socks and the smaller 2 underneath for the Bio noodles ...

[David R]

That sounds good. If you're using media like sintered glass which has lits of fine pores then having really good mechanical filtration to prevent it being clogged with fine particles is a good idea.

This is all just my thoughts/opinions btw, don't take it as gospel! :lol:

[Trelize]

Sump is complete ...

Be kind please :bggrn:

Plan is

From Tank --> Into tower (larger top section to hold filter socks) --> (Smaller Middle section of Tower) Sintered glass and possibly a bit of Bio balls if there is room --> (Bottom Section of tower) Cutting sections out for flow its purpose is to raise tower off ground --> Baffle --> Poret Foam x 2 (Was thinking 30ppi and 20ppi ??) --> Baffle --> Heaters --> Return pump --> Tank

[David R]

Looks good!!

[camtang]

+1 Nice work!

[nudge]

this is a great build thread cant wait to see it up and running any idea on a stock list?

[ryanjury]

Sump looks great and good build thread too, I look forward to seeing it progress.

[Trelize]

Thank you for all the feed back and encouragement !

this is a great build thread cant wait to see it up and running any idea on a stock list?

A few weeks out before I have everything up and running and a good few weeks of cycling I imagine but as far a stock list goes I am... so far... planning 20 Dems around 15 Electric yellows a mix of 15ish Rusty's and red Zebras but that's open to discussion . also want 4 or 5 Cuckoo's

[nudge]

sounds good but your yellows and red zebras will likely cross breed, i'd go for 1 or the other and it can be hard finding good quality red zebras, yellows and dems together are a bit of a classic mix and look great as its an awesome colour mix, keep up the posts tanks comin together nicely

[ryanjury]

Thank you for all the feed back and encouragement !

A few weeks out before I have everything up and running and a good few weeks of cycling I imagine but as far a stock list goes I am... so far... planning 20 Dems around 15 Electric yellows a mix of 15ish Rusty's and red Zebras but that's open to discussion . also want 4 or 5 Cuckoo's

Mix sounds good as nudge has suggested the yellows and red zebs might cross but you probably won't end up with much breeding with cuckoos in the tank anyway. Regarding cycling if you were stocking with juvvies then you could just put them in with some cycled media from a local fish keepers tank and keep an eye on things, in a tank that big there is plenty of water to dilute any nasty stuff that may build up and unless you filled the tank to the brim with fish and overfed you wouldn't cause an ammonia spike.

[Trelize]

OK ... Any suggestions on what would be alright with dems , yellows and the cuckoo's ?

Or is that already a fair mix to start ?

[nudge]

its a great size tank so in theory you could get away with pretty much anything. Do you want to stick with mbuna? Maybe some peacocks and haps. A group of venustus would look good. With what you have suggested you could prob add haps and peacocks to the mix as the yellows are pretty mellow as far as mbuna go. The dems at 20+ should stick to themselves and not cause to many probs. Have a look through some species profiles and post your ideas we can give opinions to help get ya stock selection right.

[camtang]

I think Tropheops Chilumba are a great mix with yellows and dems.

Also agree with a big group of dems (20+)

[ryanjury]

Tropheops chilumba would be the same sorts of colours as dems/yellows so I would go with other fish however there is plenty of room in that tank so you could easily do the dems/yellows/tropheops and other fish.

I would probably start with dems/yellows/cuckoos and build up from there, with a tank that size (and extra volume added by sump you could stick tons of fish in there, best to start with 20+ dems and 10 or so yellows, but there are plenty more options peacocks or haps etc that would be good in there too, I have a few different types and live close to you so feel free to come over and have a look if you want inspiration.

[Trelize]

I have a few different types and live close to you so feel free to come over and have a look if you want inspiration.

Closer to the time I definitely plan on doing just that , thank you .

[ryanjury]

Just for example this is a 540L tank that I had running for a while when I had to put all my breeders in the same tank and do some work in the fishroom, tank is 1500 x 60 x 60, filtration is FX5 and not all the fish are shown..

[Trelize]

That looks great !

I was looking at some of these guys last night , would they be alright with Dems , yellows and the Cuckoo's ?

Al. jacobfrybergi Peacock

Ice Blue - Metriaclima greshakei